Used Tos Spindle Lathe for sale (15,205)

Condition: used, machine/vehicle number: 1717, Used lead and feed screw lathe WEILER PRAKTIKANT Centre height: 140 mm Distance between centres: 500 mm Spindle bore: 36 mm Spindle speeds: 42–2,000 rpm Gbjdpfxsuqb Ems Aatjt Equipped with RSF 3-axis digital readout, 1 pc 3-jaw chuck Ø160 mm, Chuck guard electrically interlocked, With Multifix toolpost size A with 3 holders Lever-operated collet device with 15 collets. The machine is located at our facility in 71334 Waiblingen-Beinstein and is immediately available. Viewing of the machine is possible by prior arrangement.

Condition: good (used), Center distance: 800mm Spindle clearance: 38mm Center height: 165mm Turning diameter over bed: 330mm Turning diameter over slide: 170mm Speed: 24-2800 Dimensions: 1600mm x 600mm x 1250mm Weight: 850 kg Gedpfx Ajukrtneatobt

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1998, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 4397, Ladies and Gentlemen, We are selling a Weiler Praktikant 160 AC lathe built in 1998 with original Weiler 3-axis digital readout. This newer version "AC" stands out above all due to the infinitely variable speed control, which makes working on the otherwise very user-friendly machine even easier. The machine has been extensively overhauled in our workshop so that it is technically and visually in excellent condition. All guides are in good order, the gears run quietly and the levers are easy to operate. You are welcome to visit us on site to see the condition for yourself. Availability: on request Machine no. 4397 Year of manufacture: 1998 Center height: 160mm Center width: 650mm Spindle passage: Ø 40mm Spindle speed: 20-3000 rpm stepless Tailstock taper holder: MK3 Quill stroke: 85mm Feed range longitudinal slide: 0.020 - 0.630 mm/rev Feed range cross slide: 0.006 - 0.200 mm/rev Possible thread types: Metric, inch, module, diametral pitch Metric thread pitches: 0.25 - 8mm Gbsdpfjq H D U Ejx Aatot Spindle brake: switchable Total connected load: 7.5 kvA Voltage: 400V Dimensions: approx. 1.58x0.9x1.5m (LxHxW) Weight: approx. 720kg Further equipment and accessories: 3-axis digital display, coolant device, chuck protection, jaw chuck and other accessories on request... Our service promise to you: - We are a certified master company in the field of mechanical engineering - All machines are thoroughly checked - All lubricants and any worn parts are replaced in advance - On request, we can completely or partially overhaul your chosen machine - On request, we can repaint the selected machine in the color of your choice - On request, you can order additional accessories such as tools etc. directly with the machine - On request, we can install additional accessories such as safety devices etc. - We are happy to take care of shipping and/or installation

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2017, operating hours: 300 h, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 20161259/2017, Filling system for all liquids. The system was used to fill disinfectant bottles. The system was put into operation in 2017 and is still as good as new, having only been in operation for a few hundred hours. The article produced was only sold during Corona. Gbedevmnkrepfx Aatet It is also possible to purchase the complete product. Unfortunately there are only a few photos, but we would be happy to send you a video of the system in operation.

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2019, Article: CNC-controlled multi-spindle automatic lathe Manufacturer: Tornos Godpfx Aoldk R Hsatsbt Type: MultiSwiss 8x26 Yob: 2019 full cross slide configuration, counter spindle, part-pre-drawing device, 2 x driven tools, 1 rigid backworking, 1 x driven backworking, 2x 80 bar high pressure pumps optional: setting robot make HandlingTech. The scope of delivery regarding the tooling equipment could be different like pictures. Please, contact us for getting more informations and pictures on or *

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1982, Center height: 220 mm Center width: 1250/1300 mm Swing diameter: over bed 440 mm Spindle bore: Spindle mount: Tailstock taper: 5 MK Spindle speeds: 11.2 - 2240 rpm Feeds: longitudinal/transverse 0.1-2.8/0.05-1.4 mm/rev Gbodpfx Asvzn Itoatjt Thread pitches: Electrical connection: 380 V, 11 kW Space required: 3400 x 1400 x 1300/1700 mm Weight: approx. 2700 kg

Year of construction: 2001, condition: ready for operation (used), X-axis travel: 220 mm, Z-axis travel: 635 mm, swing diameter over the bed cover: 570 mm, swing diameter over the cross-slide cover: 420 mm, speed range: 25-5,000 rpm, spindle bore diameter: 65 mm, chuck diameter: 250 mm, tailstock travel: 550 mm, main spindle drive power at 100% duty cycle: 21 kW, maximum torque: 240 Nm, C-axis holding torque: 200 Nm, control system: Heidenhain EP 4290 TP, connected load: 44 kVA, length: 3,250 mm, width: 1,750 mm, height: 2,300 mm, weight without chip conveyor: 5.3 t, operating hours: 16,930 h. Equipment: Hydraulically adjustable three-jaw chuck with various interchangeable jaws, MK4 tailstock quill, 12-station VDI 30 disc turret with 6 driven tool stations, tool measuring arm, workpiece pick-up device, coolant system, chip conveyor, coolant mist extraction system, various tool holders, Drehwerk turning and milling tools including driven tools, two tool cabinets and documentation. The main spindle produces running noise. An on-site inspection is possible. Gjdpfx Aaezrn H Tjtsbt

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Spindle number : 6 - Max. bar diameter : 20 [mm], 25 [mm] in option - Cross slides number : 4 - Max. supply length : 100 [mm] - Spindle rotation speed : 420 - 5000 [Rpm] - Indexing time : 0,7 [s] - Machining time : 1,4 - 60 [s] - Power : 11 [kW] - Dimensions : 5800 x 1500 [mm] - Weight : 6000 [kg] EQUIPMENT - 4 cross slides posts 1 2 4 5 - 1 chip conveyor - 5 drillers - 1 IEMCA PRA41/31/P feeder DBMS-36 (1995) Gbsdpfeuharrox Aatot

Condition: new, Bernardo Production Lathe Goliath 660 x 3000 incl. 3-Axis Digital Readout Technical Specifications Centre distance: 3000 mm Centre height: 330 mm Swing over bed: 660 mm Swing over gap*: 870 mm Swing over cross slide: 420 mm Bed width: 400 mm Spindle bore: 105 mm Spindle mounting: DIN 55029, D1-8 Speed range (16 steps): 36 – 1600 rpm Longitudinal feed range (65 steps): 0.063 – 2.52 mm/rev Cross feed range (65 steps): 0.027 – 1.07 mm/rev Metric threads (22): 1 – 14 mm Inch threads (26): 2 – 28 TPI (G/1") Quill diameter: 75 mm Quill travel: 150 mm Gjdpfxoxxaxnj Aatobt Quill taper: MT 5 Motor power: 9.0 kW (12.0 HP) Machine dimensions (W x D x H): 4500 x 1280 x 1650 mm Approx. weight: 3990 kg * Removable bed gap: 240 mm Features • Versatile applications in general engineering, production, single-part manufacturing, etc. • The one-piece cast machine bed offers extremely high rigidity and low vibration, fulfilling a key requirement for precision turning • Modern headstock bearing with precision angular contact ball bearings • Central, user-friendly control for feeds and threading, with lead and feed screws • Rapid traverse (longitudinal and cross) as standard to minimize non-productive times • Large-dimensioned, hardened, and precision-ground gears • Removable gap bridge enables machining of large-diameter workpieces • Adjustable tailstock for taper turning, handwheel with adjustable fine scale (0.02 mm) • Electromechanical foot brake to reduce non-productive times • Excellent machining performance even during facing operations Scope of delivery • Slip clutch • Rapid traverse (longitudinal and cross) • LED machine lamp • 3-axis digital readout ES-12 V with LCD display • 3-jaw chuck PS3-315 mm / D8 • Face plate 630 mm • Fixed steady rest – max. bore diameter 250 mm • Travelling steady rest – max. bore diameter 110 mm • 1 live centre / 1 revolving centre • Motor with magnetic brake according to CE standard • Foot pedal with brake function to CE standard • Factory fill with Shell Tellus 46 • Coolant device • Quick-change toolpost with 4 holders • Safety guard for quick-change toolpost • Reducing sleeve • Chip guard (swarf back panel) • Operating tools

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1972, functionality: fully functional, We are offering this machine for sale. It is connected and can be tested under power. A video of the machine can be sent via WhatsApp. Gbjdpfxov Spvmj Aatjt Centre height above bed: 1,250 mm Maximum swing diameter over cross slide: 2,000 mm Maximum swing diameter over bed: 2,500 mm Maximum workpiece weight between centres without supports: 80 t Bed height: 700 mm Bed width: 3,000 mm Distance between centres: 7,000 mm Machine weight: approx. 160,000 kg

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 1969, Centre height: 355 mm Centre distance: 3000 mm Max. swing diameter over bed/gap/cross slide: 715/790/520 mm Spindle bore: 86 mm Spindle mount according to DIN 55027: Size 11 Quill taper of tailstock: MK 5 21 spindle speeds: 5.6 - 560 rpm 42 feeds longitudinal/cross: 0.09 - 5.6/0.045 - 2.8 mm 22 Whitworth threads: 2 - 28 TPI 28 metric thread pitches: 1 - 14 mm 27 module thread pitches: 0.25 - 3.5 module 32 module threads: 4 - 56 module 32 diametral pitch threads: 8 - 112 DP Drive motor, pole-changeable: 380 V, 7/11 kW Weight approx.: 7 t Gbjdpfx Aaexpuu Eotot Space requirement approx.: 6000 x 2300 mm

Condition: used, 2x 6-spindle bar automatics as a package Make: INDEX Model: MS25E Gjdpoylhlqefx Aatsbt (1 machine defective, used as a parts donor)

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2000, machine/vehicle number: 8073, Offer 25432 Gjdpsxx Sp Eefx Aatsbt Technical specifications: - Swing diameter: 320 mm - Distance between centers: 750 mm - Maximum turning diameter over bed: 550 mm - Maximum turning diameter over cross slide: 175 mm - Spindle bore: 32 mm - Spindle mount: - Tailstock quill taper: MT 3 - Quill stroke: 180 mm - 18 spindle speeds: 85 - 2000 rpm - Longitudinal and cross feeds - Metric thread pitches - Imperial thread pitches - Module threads - Diametral pitch threads - Quick-change tool post - Chuck - Steady rest - Drive: 400 V / 2.2 kW - Required space (approx.): W 2100 x D 750 x H 1300 mm - Weight (approx.): 750 kg

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1986, functionality: fully functional, Weiler Praktikant 160 B lead and feed screw lathe with 3-axis digital readout K&C NEW Technical data: >> Year of manufacture: 1986, machine number 86-160-348 >> Center height: 160 mm >> Distance between centers: 650 mm >> Spindle speeds: 8 steps; from 96 to 2500 rpm >> Spindle bore: 40 mm >> Short taper spindle head DIN 55027 size 5 with bayonet lock >> Tailstock: MT 3 >> Feeds: 0.02 to 0.63 mm/rev >> Usable threads: metric, inch, module, and diametral pitch >> Metric thread pitches: 0.25 to 8 mm >> Weight: approx. 680 kg >> Spindle brake switchable >> Length 1.6 m, height 1.25 m, depth 0.7 m Accessories and equipment: >> 3-axis digital readout from K&C, new, 12 months manufacturer warranty with operating manual Functions: mm/inch switching, coordinate selection ABS/INC, value halving, reference point, tool programming for 200 tools, taper calculation, radius/diameter display, quick zeroing, direction reversal >> Collet clamping device, collets as new from 1 to 29 mm in 1 mm increments >> 160 mm new three-jaw chuck with 2 sets of jaws >> Multifix size A with 3 tool holders >> Electric chuck guard >> Bed stop >> Rear wall >> Machine leveling feet Gsdpfx Aowthbieatjbt >> Coolant device About the machine: Offered is a Weiler Praktikant 160 B lead and feed screw lathe built to toolroom precision in very good condition. The machine is, of course, fully functional. The Weiler was completely dismantled and newly painted in light grey. All slides move very smoothly and evenly. Even at high speeds, the Weiler runs quietly. This newer generation of Weiler lathes is very user-friendly and can produce surfaces as if ground. Take the opportunity to inspect the machine under power on site and verify its condition for yourself.

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1993, Technical details: number of spindles: 8 spindle passage: 32 mm Article: cam-controlled multi-spindle automatic lathe Manufacturer: Schütte Type: AF32 Dnt Gbodorgt E Repfx Aatjt Yob: 1993 eight-spindle automatic lathe eight main spindles for bars up to D=32mm Modernized control: Siemens Sinumerik Motors: renewed modern motors suitable for modernized control system Electronic trip dog control: Balluff CNC cross slide position 5 cross CNC cross slide position 6 cross Preparation for gripper in position 8 (gripper optional) Independent feeds Thread cutting couplings integrated bar loader: Pietro CUCCHI; type: rack type magazine The scope of delivery regarding the tooling equipment could be different like pictures. *

Condition: used, functionality: fully functional, Weiler Matador VS-2 guide and feed spindle lathe Technical data: >> Year of manufacture approx. 1970 Machine no. M1012 >> Center height 140 mm >> Center width 500 mm >> Speed: 30 – 3550 rpm >> Spindle passage 36 mm >> Short taper spindle head DIN 55022-5 with bayonet lock >> Tailstock MK 3 >> Feed rates from 0.010 to 1.184 mm / rev >> Possible threads metric, inch, module and diametric pitch >> Metric thread pitches from 0.25 to 15 mm >> Weight approx. 700 kg >> Length 1.4 m, height 1.2 m, depth 0.55 m Accessories and equipment: >> Collet device 32 collets (set is not complete) with holder >> 1 three-jaw chuck 1 set of jaws >> 1 four-jaw chuck 1 set of jaws >> Mulifix size A with 2 steel holders >> Change gears >> Bed stop About the machine: A used Weiler Matador VS-2 is offered in a fully functional condition. Take the opportunity to view this machine on site under power and see for yourself its condition. Gsdjvv Etvepfx Aatjbt

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2001, Technical details: number of spindles: 6 spindle passage: 32 mm Gbedpfx Aeyqvlvsatjt Article: cam-controlled multi-spindle automatic lathe Manufacturer: Schutte Type: SF32 S Dnt Yob: 2003 Eight-spindle automatic lathe with 6 main spindles max. nominal diameter: D=32mm Spindle drum with hirth coupling, Elbaron oil mist filter, sorting chute, Interface for: IEMCA PRA bar loading magazine (optional I: IEMCA PRA52/42/F); coolant tank with hinged chip conveyor; Schimpke KSS active cooler, control: Siemens S7-300 PLC; tooling included in delivery may differ from the images Please, contact us for getting more information and pictures on mail(at) or *

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Number of turret positions : 4 - Max. stroke of drilling, tapping, and threading spindles : 32 [mm] - Max. stroke of the counter-grip spindle : 36 [mm] - Max. diameter for brass threading/tapping : 5 [mm] - Max. diameter for steel threading/tapping : 4 [mm] - Max. threaded length : l [mm] - Max. clamping diameter of drilling spindles : 6 [mm] - Maximum Ø of the counter-gripper : 6.35 [mm] - Maximum workpiece diameter : 6.35 [mm] - Feed ratio 1:2 with counter-gripper or revolver : 31 [mm] - 1:1 feed ratio with counter-gripper or revolver : 62 [mm] - Dual feed, 1:1 ratio, counter-clamp only : 124 - Number of speeds/cam cycles : 37 - Production : 0.8 - 35 [parts/min] - Number of tools : 3 - Maximum tool travel : 4 [mm] - Toolholder Spindle Speed : 2400 / 3800 / 6000 [rpm] - Tool Dimensions : Ø 6 x 34 [mm] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 1800 x 900 [mm] - Machine weight : 1090 [kg] Gsdjzx Hlbepfx Aatsbt

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Number of turret positions : 4 - Max. stroke of drilling, tapping, and threading spindles : 32 [mm] - Max. stroke of the counter-grip spindle : 36 [mm] - Max. diameter for brass threading/tapping : 5 [mm] - Max. diameter for steel threading/tapping : 4 [mm] - Max. threaded length : l [mm] - Max. clamping diameter of drilling spindles : 6 [mm] - Maximum Ø of the counter-gripper : 6.35 [mm] - Maximum workpiece diameter : 6.35 [mm] - Feed ratio 1:2 with counter-gripper or revolver : 31 [mm] Godpfx Aaozx Hlhetsbt - 1:1 feed ratio with counter-gripper or revolver : 62 [mm] - Dual feed, 1:1 ratio, counter-clamp only : 124 - Number of speeds/cam cycles : 37 - Production : 0.8 - 50 [parts/min] - Number of tools : 3 - Maximum tool travel : 4 [mm] - Toolholder Spindle Speed : 2400 / 3800 / 6000 [rpm] - Tool Dimensions : Ø 6 x 34 [mm] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 1800 x 900 [mm] - Machine weight : 1090 [kg]

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Number of turret positions : 4 - Max. stroke of drilling, tapping, and threading spindles : 32 [mm] - Max. stroke of the counter-grip spindle : 36 [mm] - Max. diameter for brass threading/tapping : 5 [mm] - Max. diameter for steel threading/tapping : 4 [mm] Gsdpfxozx Hk Re Aatobt - Max. threaded length : l [mm] - Max. clamping diameter of drilling spindles : 6 [mm] - Maximum Ø of the counter-gripper : 6.35 [mm] - Maximum workpiece diameter : 6.35 [mm] - Feed ratio 1:2 with counter-gripper or revolver : 31 [mm] - 1:1 feed ratio with counter-gripper or revolver : 62 [mm] - Dual feed, 1:1 ratio, counter-clamp only : 124 - Number of speeds/cam cycles : 37 - Production : 0.8 - 35 [parts/min] - Number of tools : 3 - Maximum tool travel : 4 [mm] - Toolholder Spindle Speed : 2400 / 3800 / 6000 [rpm] - Tool Dimensions : Ø 6 x 34 [mm] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 1800 x 900 [mm] - Machine weight : 1090 [kg]

Condition: used, total length: 10,560 mm, total width: 1,710 mm, total height: 1,400 mm, Empty weight: 9.000 kg Price: On request - Documentation available: No - CE certificate present: No Gsdpfx Aaoyg Hi Rjtjbt - Drive system: Conventional - Power [kW]: 22.0 - Centre height [mm]: 315 - Swing over bed [mm]: 630 - Carriage turning diameter [mm]: 360 - Distance between centres [mm]: 6000 - Bed width [mm]: 700 - Spindle bore [mm]: 62 - Min. spindle speed [rpm]: 8 - Max. spindle speed [rpm]: 1180 - Options: Digital readout - Type of digital readout: Sony - Transport dimensions: 10560mm x 1710mm x 1400mm (l x w x h) - Transport weight [kg]: 9000kg - Transport packages [pcs.]: 1 Financial information VAT: The price shown is exclusive of VAT VAT/margin: VAT deductible for entrepreneurs Delivery and trade-in always possible for everything in the industrial sectors Lukas van Rossum

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Number of axes : 23 - Number of spindles : 8 - Number of counter-spindles : 1 - Max. part length : 100 [mm] SPINDLES - Max. bar diameter : 22 [mm] - Spindle speeds : 8000 [rpm] - Spindle power : 11.2 [kW] Gjdpfxozhph Dj Aatjbt COUNTER-SPINDLE - Y stroke : 280 [mm] - Z stroke : 450 [mm] NUMERICAL AXES - 1 cross slide, position 1: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 2: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 3: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 4: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 5: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 6: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 7: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cutting carriage 8: x=65 [mm] POWER SUPPLY - Supply voltage : 400 [V] - Total installed power : 80 [kVA] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 5.300 x 2.200 [mm] - Machine height : 2.600 [mm] - Machine weight : 12.000 [kg] MACHINE HOURS - Number of hours under power : 75000 [h] EQUIPMENT - CNC : Fanuc 30i-TB - Hirth teeth - 1 counter-spindle in position 7 - Counter-spindle with counter-operation device - 2 x 4 counter-operation tools - 8 spindles with independent spindle speeds - C-axis on all 8 spindles and the counter-spindle : 0.001 [°] - Chips conveyor : MAYFRAN - Coolant tank * with high-pressure pump : 35 + 80 [bars] - Bar loader : ROBOBAR MSF-522/8 - Oil mist extractor

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Number of axes : 23 - Number of spindles : 8 - Number of counter-spindles : 1 - Max. part length : 100 [mm] SPINDLES - Max. bar diameter : 22 [mm] - Spindle speeds : 8000 [rpm] - Spindle power : 11.2 [kW] COUNTER-SPINDLE - Y stroke : 280 [mm] Gbedpfx Aozhphwsatst - Z stroke : 450 [mm] NUMERICAL AXES - 1 cross slide, position 1: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 2: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 3: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 4: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 5: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 6: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cross slide, position 7: x=50 [mm], Z1=80 [mm] - 1 cutting carriage 8: x=65 [mm] POWER SUPPLY - Supply voltage : 400 [V] - Total installed power : 80 [kVA] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 5.300 x 2.200 [mm] - Machine height : 2.600 [mm] - Machine weight : 12.000 [kg] MACHINE HOURS - Number of hours under power : 73500 [h] EQUIPMENT - CNC : Fanuc 30i-TB - Hirth teeth - 1 counter-spindle in position 7 - Counter-spindle with counter-operation device - 2 x 4 counter-operation tools - 8 spindles with independent spindle speeds - C-axis on all 8 spindles and the counter-spindle : 0.001 [°] - Chips conveyor : MAYFRAN - Coolant tank * with high-pressure pump : 35 + 80 [bars] - Bar loader : ROBOBAR MSF-522/8 - Oil mist extractor

Condition: used, TECHNICAL DETAILS - Maximum workpiece diameter : 4 [mm] - Number of tools : 2 - Feed system, standard lever, 2:1 ratio : 24 [mm] - Production with turret indexing : 1.25–31.5 [parts/min] Gsdpfx Aajzx Hk Detjbt - Production without turret indexing : 1.25 - 63 [parts/min] - Toolholder Spindle Speed : 4000 or 6000 [rpm] - Maximum clamping diameter of the drill chuck : 3 [mm] - Maximum drilling depth : 15 [mm] - Maximum Ø of the counter-gripper : 4 [mm] - Drilling speeds : 3000 / 5000 / 8000 / 12000 [rpm] - Turret indexing time : 0.33 [sec] POWER SUPPLY - Supply voltage : 220 [V] WEIGHT & DIMENSIONS - Machine floor space : 1100 x 680 [mm] - Machine height : 1600 [mm] - Machine weight : 870 [kg]

Condition: reconditioned (used), Year of construction: 1974, Universal lead and spindle lathe Make: WEILER Model: Commodor Year of manufacture: 1974 - overhauled newly painted RAL 7035 light gray Mach. no.: 0068 Center height: 180 mm Center width: 1000 mm Spindle bore: 56 mm with guarantee geometric acceptance with test report Accessories: - 3-axis digital display FAGOR Innova 30i-T new - Chuck protection hood with electrical protection - Quick-change tool holder size B - simple bed stop - Coolant device Godpfomgaddsx Aatobt - Operating instructions - used, as seen -